Cheap Reductil Online

Graphic Design
09/22
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15 Responses to “Cheap Reductil Online”

  1. Jin

    Agreed. To add further, a lot sites I’ve seen associate with the validation icon as a sign of “my site is accessible” as well, or even “usable.”

    Aesthetics, accessibility, usability, good coding are independent factors of a successful web design. A truly successfully site encompasses all of these factors, not substitute one for the other.

    As for the flash comment, I think you see more creativity in flash sites, simply because flash isn’t as easily copied. And I think it’s a good thing.

  2. Jim

    I totally agree with you. I think its more important to be cutting edge than to be completely compliant. Compliant doesn’t in anyway mean good. It’s not our fault that developers can’t create a browser that works well, and 90% of internet users have no idea what they are doing and are still on IE 6.

  3. Rob

    Being compliant has nothing to do with Web Design.

    Being compliant has to do with “correct” coding and is a technical measurement.

    Web Design has to do with what something looks like and how it behaves.

    They should be completely separated and independant from each other.

    Rob’s latest post: Wanna tip?

  4. Conrad Gorny

    Ye i think your totally right.

    Conrad Gorny
    Freelance Graphic Designer
     http://www.conradgorny.com

  5. Boris

    I agree with Rob on this one. While your post makes a valid points, in reality standards compliance and visual design are two separate aspects of the web site. Compliant for the most part is focused on technical part and does not feature much of the visual representation. Making sure that the web site you are making works in all the browser is not a choice its a must. Client does not care about designer’s personal convictions and if they want site for any possible user then it must be delivered. Sites should never sacrifice the visual aspect to complaints because there is no need for it.

  6. benjamin

    You make a god point. I certainly went through the “everything must validate” phase. I must admit that I am still in it. Yet I have never put validation ahead of design. If anything, I enjoy the challenge of finding a way to make everything validate. Now there are some cases where it would be totally unreasonable to do this. And for those projects, that’s just how it’s gonna be. But I have to say that the validation movement has done a lot for cleaning up the html crap hole that the web has been. There is still a lot of crap out there, and IE still loves to run this crap, but at least clean code is winning the battle over crap code these days. Overall, I do think that good design will always win over good code, based on the clients perspective. Sometimes, progress can only come from breaking the rules. And once we learn how to follow standards, we should push them to their limits and beyond.

  7. Zinni

    Rob & Boris,

    We are on the same page. When I was writing this article, I was actually thinking about how I receive comments on my sources of inspiration series about how a site is not good because it fails a validation check. I was just trying to put into perspective how flawed of an argument this is.

    Thank you everyone for your comments, I am actually surprised that the response has been so positive so far. I was expecting a couple of flames for this one…

  8. Bunny got Blog

    Oh I get it-
    you argue and don’t negotiate :)

    Bunny got Blog’s latest post: Sarah Palin & Hillary on Saturday Night Live

  9. ’Mas

    While I agree that standards compliance is not the only criteria for judging a site’s “worthiness”, let’s not throw out the baby with the bath water either. For the past couple of years now, I make every effort to produce code that validates while faithfully rendering my partner’s designs. The validation is there to help me make sure my t’s are crossed and my i’s dotted and nothing more.

    Standards is more than validating the code. As you’ve aptly stated, validating code can be a hideous thing to view. Standards compliance is also about separating the content from the style and behavior so that each element operates in the proper context. That can be difficult to accomplish and is what sets the better designers apart from the uncouth.

    That’s my 2 cents :^{>

  10. Magenta

    …so is a creative Flash based site that cant get indexed by Search Engines still effective?

  11. Nathan Beck

    Nice article. Holds true, and no - clients really don’t care about whether their site is valid or not - they just want to see return on investment.

    Q. So - to keep everyone happy, why not build visually effective, usable, accessible, valid websites? \
    A. Because it requires skill, and years of learning and practice to get to a level where you can tick all the boxes, and in turn charge a lot more for your time.

    Nathan Beck’s latest post: Guest Post - Creating Usable Website Navigation

  12. Jack McDaniel

    The industry you’re working within makes such a big difference in determining how creative you can get. It is important to expand the boundaries, but it has to make sense for the audience you are addressing. Construction companies (and their targeted audience) just can’t use the same level of creativity as a rock band.

    As for valid, standards based approach - I don’t see how they should interfere with the creative aspects. Either you take care and code well, or you don’t.

    Jack McDaniel’s latest post: ZAP Construction Corporate Identity

  13. mark

    apologies: i basically copied the review I posted after i read it on cssdrive.com :)
    I saw where the article had gotten many “thumbs down” ratings and decided to read it for myself!

    …”Burn After Reading” an almost hit movie staring George Clooney and others comes to mind….

    “Avoiding Standards Complacency

    Standards compliance has led to complacency and become a diversion tactic. Anthony Zinni explains.”

    Hmmm..provocative title and article! Serious food for thought here! - So why so many negatives? More “haters” as Sarah Palin would say?

    Alas, the three or so paragraphs of the article are nothing much more than unsubstantiated blathering mis-opinion.

    He makes a series of bold statements with no factual or even anecdotal backing nor examples.
    “Standards compliance has become a diversion tactic

    Design is hard to sell, and effective design is even harder to show because it looks effortless”

    Of course he means (or should mean) “Standards Compliance has become a DIVERSIONARY tactic” grammar aside, why do you say that, exactly? We’ll never know, as he happily moves on to his next non-fact.

    p.s. “This is why we see so many designers showing off their little badges in footers because talking about what makes their design effective is a much harder thing to do”

    How about “talking about what makes their design effective” is NOT THEIR FCKING JOB???

    lol

  14. Zinni

    @mark,

    I didn’t submit the article to that site. The grammatical errors are not my own.

    The only response I have to your response is that if you think talking about what makes your design effective is not a designers job, then you are in for a world of disappointment. Every time a designer shows a client a concept, it should be backed by reason and purpose. Maintaining client expectations is integral to being a designer, it is all part of the process.

  15. phillip

    “Standards compliance has become a diversion tactic”
    Thats your first header I believe. Yeah, it should be “diversionary tactic” but big deal.

    The little badges and icons indicating compliance with some standard or other are litting things they put on the site (note I didnt say THEIR site, since often when people do a site, it is not THEIRS but rather the site of GM or Walmart or some other big company, so they dont often have space or scope to go into what they want to say. Personally, unless you are doing your own personal site or doing something PRO-BONO (i.e. for a Charity or community group) or PRO-BONER (i.e. for a hot chick) you dont really have much scope or control anyway, and are often limited by the contextual framework you are in. Often times you are forced to work with fools (or, more diplomatically, people who do not share your design aesthetic ) :|

    What I do is work from a template initially (which is generally semantic and layout friendly) and a basic coding style which is implicitly starting out as tending more to being valid, I use degradable Javascript then add non-essential navigational flair and lookups afterwards.

    I NEVER present validation to a client as part of my design/concept presentation - they would be pissed as hell to find that such nebulous niceties were part of the $150/hr they were paying for!
    I make sure I do it behind the scenes for my own self-satisfaction, and also for when I get the call to make the site more ammenable to e-shoppers using an Iphone, it’s easy for me!

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